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Post by Ryan Wunsch on Apr 11, 2006 18:09:44 GMT -5
I've always wished that more studies would be done regarding reptiles. I think there are a lot of medical benefits yet to be found, and there seems to be a lot currently being found.
I think there would be more research if the funding and grants were available for things like that.
Perhaps it is time that we hobbiests start contributing more for money for those causes.
I beleive TARAS gives a scholarship for University students.
At the same time, there are a lot of hobbiests that have taken the hobby further, and are making money off of the reptiles that they keep and breed (and in some cases, a lot of money)
Maybe it is time for them to start giving something back.
I know some do, for example Don Patterson donates money to mampam, an organization for the conservation and study of monitor lizards.
I'm just thinking, maybe more of us should.
Any thoughts?
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Post by shawnfraser on Apr 11, 2006 23:38:24 GMT -5
Yes, I have a thought - you could give me some money SIR Ryan...
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Post by Ryan Wunsch on Apr 12, 2006 1:09:34 GMT -5
Yes, I have a thought - you could give me some money SIR Ryan... Here's a quarter, call someone.... Just kidding  I thought more about this thead tonight actually. Now that the zoo is closed, I realize that if I had spent 1/2 of the money that I put into the zoo and travelling show effort, on sending people to university or funding research projects - I could probably have a degree! I've always thought that if I won a lottery, I might spend my life taking university classes just for my own enjoyment of learning about things, not to find a job to use it with. One of my favorite hobbies is learning about biology and related things. Since I was very young, I wanted to be a vet or a "herpetololologist" and I later learned how to spell and pronounce that word. The counciler type person at higschool pretty much told me to find something more practical, like Instrumentation - and I took practicallity over my dream. I wonder how things would now be had i taken the right turn, instead of the left. If I had spent that same 1/2 of the money I put into the zoo, on ball python morphs 6 years ago, chances are good that I would have enough money to pay for all of these research projects, take all the HISS members for a feild trip to Australia, and think about going to university. I did neither of those things of course, and will never regret my last 6 years. I'm sure the money, hard work work and associated stress did have a good benefit for the dollar value spent, so I don't feel bitter about it. But if I invest my money and effort to benefit reptiles in the future, which is almost a given that I will, I think that I will incorporate some of the above ideas. If gods forsakes, the reptiles I keep make money - that money will be split between chocolate covered rats, new caging and likely some kind of research funding or scholarship for those who did take the university route. After a big screen T.V of course... I don't care what other people do with their money. But... If 1/2 of the 50 most financially successful breeders donated only 1/20th of the money that the breeding of reptiles are making them, to any kind of reptile related effort, I bet it would add up to quite a bit of money that would go to good use. Maybe if there was a fund set up for this kind of thing, they would be happy to give just a bit of money. Not saying that I am going to set up a fund, who knows, I might do something like that some time in the future - but I was just putting the idea out there incase someone wanted to run with it now. But back to your original question Shawn, how much money did you want me to send you Ryan |
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Post by shawnfraser on Apr 12, 2006 9:06:51 GMT -5
Half of what you invested in the zoo sounds good. |
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Tim Cranwill
Active Member
MHS founder / President
MHS Representative
Posts: 55
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Post by Tim Cranwill on Apr 12, 2006 9:51:27 GMT -5
I think those are some very noble and interesting thoughts, Ryan. I would much rather spend my life pursuing my dreams than making 50% more money each year. Would I really enjoy the small portion of that extra money that would actually go towards having fun? Well, probably a little. But I would likely just have a higher car payment, a higher mortgage payment, a bigger cable package, more cell phone minutes and etc and etc. But that isn't what life is about, in my books. Those things don’t really make anyone happy on in inside. I enjoy a lot of things that I get to do on a regular basis more than I would enjoy $100 a month more spending money. I enjoy spending as much time as I can with my 3 kids and my wife. I enjoy keeping and breeding snakes. I enjoy seeing my friends and family as much as I do. I enjoy listening to, playing and writing music. I could have gotten a degree if I wanted to... and who knows, maybe I will yet. But I spent those 6 years after high school chasing a dream and I don't regret that decisions one bit. I made it pretty darn close to that dream and I made a lot of my best friends in the process. Anyway, sorry for going off on a bit of a tangent there. All your talk of “if I had just done this or just done that I would be there now” kind of inspired me!  I think giving something back is important. I would be interested in contributing to a fund like you mentioned. I think it's a great idea and one that you should definitely give more thought to.  |
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Post by joeysgreen on Apr 14, 2006 6:46:43 GMT -5
ERAS has tossed up a few times the idea of a grant or scholarship but hasn't really put anything into motion. Our fundraising budget isn't really high enough to commit to anything substantial. We have done (or are doing things like), sponser a CARCNET conference, donate to Ducks Unlimited for land purchases, buy rainforest, sponser the leopard frog rehabilitation ect. Little things, but a lot for a small organization. While personal donations are great, I really think that consistency will work out moreso under a society banner. HISS is still in it's infancy, but down the road these types of things will seem more plausable.
Ian
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Post by joeysgreen on Apr 14, 2006 6:49:51 GMT -5
Now that I think again... does Sask have an amphibian/reptile monitoring program? Alberta has a hugely successfull one that the general public collects data for. This is an already funded program (mostly government I think) that allows all our field herping to go for a greater good. Just an easy way to be part of the scientific feild.
Ian
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Post by vanderkm on Apr 14, 2006 13:32:07 GMT -5
Ian's idea of support for the amphibian/reptile monitoring program is a great one. Nice to have some positive impact on the local ecosystem and put effort as well as dollars behind it. I certainly think there are many opportunities to support research into these species and it is beneficial for a club to do it in addition to individuals giving money back - a group provides a lot more collectively. Being able to use proceeds from specific public education shows would be great - espcially if it was a show and sale where the individuals showing could benefit from sales at the show as well.
The Edmonton club has done a lot with public education at their shows and raised a lot of money over the years. It does take committment from club members though - much more work than going to one of Walter's shows - where he does all the work and gets the profit (and more power to him - I think that is a great system - love not having to work in the kitchen to put a show on!!) Know it has been talked about before, but it might be worth considering some fund raising events - maybe a single day show/sale in Saskatoon or Regina, with proceeds toward a specific project. We do have to be careful that the club and fund raising doesn't become an end in itself and take away from what we are in the hobby for - enjoying the animals. Sometimes it is easier to just give the $$$ than do all the work to earn it. On the other hand - if these money raising shows are really successful it becomes a challenge to manage the $$$ collected!! I certainly support the idea of giving something back though.
mary v.
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Post by Ryan Wunsch on Apr 14, 2006 14:22:15 GMT -5
Now that I think again... does Sask have an amphibian/reptile monitoring program? This is the only one I remembering hearing of, but I don't beleive it is a Saskatchewan initiative. www.naturewatch.ca/english/frogwatch/sa/intro.htmlAlberta has always been ahead of Saskatchewan for things like this, like their species monitoring program. There may be something that I am not aware of, but I suspect it might have something to do with the amount of money each government has to play with. I beleive Manitoba has something for hognose snakes that the general public can be a part of. The only specific studies I can remember hearing about, were University based, and required "research permits". Ryan |
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Post by joeysgreen on Apr 15, 2006 4:50:48 GMT -5
I'll ask my ACA contact and see if he knows of anything about Sask programs.... buuuuttt, Ryan are you up to the task of a new segment to HISS? Why look for a program that may or may not exist? Start your own, get out the word, and let it grow. All you'd really have to do is post notices at reptile swaps/stores, universities, zoos, the other reptile clubs ect, organize the data, and perhaps put out a yearly newsletter to summarize the data for those interested. Let me know if this is an undertaking you're interested in, and I can give you some pointers, and/or put you into contact with some people with more expertise that would be more than willing to help out Ian |
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Post by Ryan Wunsch on Apr 16, 2006 2:42:18 GMT -5
buuuuttt, Ryan are you up to the task of a new segment to HISS? Why look for a program that may or may not exist? Start your own, get out the word, and let it grow. I'd love to be a part of something like that, and I would love for HISS to spearhead it. That was actually a top priority of HISS way back when. Byron had a lot of ideas to head up something like that, through HISS or a seperate identity. Nothing formal was done, but information was gathered and investigated, and still is. I know of quite a few people on this list who would be able to contribute a lot of past findings to a survey like that, and a few that would jump at the chance to go exploring locations to hopefully document a finding for a map. Mostly through the Scales Zoo educational displays, I've gathered a lot of anecdotal information about the ranges of our native snakes, from people who were paying attention since the early 1900's. Unfortunately, a sizeable portion of these seem to be unreliable or obviously innacurate for a variety of reasons. Snake stories are better than fish stories, anecdotal information is just that, and can't be accepted as proof. But in todays digital camera age, hopefully more people would be inclined to try to prove their claims. I have a fairly large list of places to look that are likely to yeild documentable proof. I could ask our local conservation officers about a non evasive range and monitoring effort that was a bit more formal than what we've done in the past. I know that Sask Environment has some specific information about den locations and confirmed locations, recorded in the past, but as far as I know it is not for public record. Bullsnakes, Rattlesnakes and Hognose snakes are protected, which includes a broad definition for harrassment that can be interperated in many ways. To fall on the safe side of the laws, I think we may need to ask if a research permit is required, and I suspect it will be, if we plan to advertise the study. Canadian Wildlife Services conduct a lot of these types of studies (no recent ones in Saskatchewan that I know of) they probably don't want just any long haired hippy tribe doing work that they might have plans for. There have been university studies that might help, we have university members in the club, hopefully if we are willing to share our findings with concerned parties, they won't object to an effort by HISS. My vision was to incorporate newspaper adds and a poster campaign to all likely parts of Saskatchewan. If we do something like this I have quite a few contacts in the media that I'm sure would be happy to lend a hand to get the word out and get information flowing in. Again, there is someone on this list that might be able to help us with this more than we realize. It may take high speed eggs to get that person more active in these great ideas. Ryan |
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Post by Ryan Wunsch on Apr 16, 2006 2:53:33 GMT -5
Being able to use proceeds from specific public education shows would be great - espcially if it was a show and sale where the individuals showing could benefit from sales at the show as well. I have an amazing venue that would love to host a reptile club show and sale for a very reasonable price. I'm not sure what weekends would still be availabe this year, but if there is enough motivation to get the ball rolling and have a 2006 show, I don't think it is too late to pull one off. It would require investment in advance from our members, since our club does not have a bank roll. I have a gut feeling that the show would not lose money in the first year, and I would be willing to put some money into a joint effort if there was enough interest from other members to help fund the first show. This probably deserves a seperate thread in the forum, but a lot of the groundwork and planning has already been done and to me it looks like a very good fundraising opportunity. Ryan |
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Tim Cranwill
Active Member
MHS founder / President
MHS Representative
Posts: 55
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Post by Tim Cranwill on Apr 18, 2006 0:21:25 GMT -5
I think a "colubrid only" show would do very well in Sask. Some of the top colubrid breeders in western Canada are within hours of either major city and I would think they would all make the trip. I know I would go...not that I am a huge colubrid breeder. But if the show did well, I would be more inclined to keep a growing collection of colubrids. EDIT: I guess I should have called it a "non-boid" show and not a "colubrid only" show. Sorry. |
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Post by Shawn(snakebite) on Apr 18, 2006 7:49:47 GMT -5
Ryan- I've always wanted Sask. to have it's own Reptile / show & sale kinda deal.I would definately be interested in somethin like that and would definately take part.When would you figure a time for it?I assume late summer or fall hey , when everyones had most of their babies hatch and have had some time to start feeding and such.I sure think somethin like that would get Sask. going with the herps a bit more and would promote good positive herp knowledge.I mean it would be a great opportunity for some knowledge and info to those who have only known "pet store care advice".
Going back a bit , I agree with Tim and I'd rather do somethin for less money if it was somethin I really enjoyed.Money is a necessity , but it's not the highest priority for me, and if I had my choice I would just work with my animals if I could get by.It's what I love and I too always wanted to be a Herpetologist , and would of , but at the time when I was really looking into it , it was only offered in like California.Is it true that Calgary has a course on it now?
Anyways , a Sask . show would be a Sweet idea!! ;D
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Post by joeysgreen on Apr 18, 2006 11:14:27 GMT -5
How long ago were you looking into herpetology? New courses are always being added; for example, the U of A recently has extended towards paleontology. While no official herpetology courses are available, alot of biology majors are directing their efforts towards herps (primarily native amphibians). More concerned with veterinary, I havn't really looked into herpetology courses. Coincidently, I"m moving to Wisconsin, and the U there has a great herpetology school.
:)Ian
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Post by vanderkm on Apr 20, 2006 13:52:18 GMT -5
Being able to use proceeds from specific public education shows would be great - espcially if it was a show and sale where the individuals showing could benefit from sales at the show as well. I have an amazing venue that would love to host a reptile club show and sale for a very reasonable price. ....................................... It would require investment in advance from our members, since our club does not have a bank roll. .............................. This probably deserves a seperate thread in the forum, but a lot of the groundwork and planning has already been done and to me it looks like a very good fundraising opportunity. Ryan I guess the obvious question is - how much of an investment?? Given a club of 40 members - maybe 15 of those actually willing and able to contribute and help out - maybe 10 willing to put something up front in hopes of getting it back - and all proceeds to go toward club funds that could be directed toward research - what are we looking at for initial cost. I am really interested in the public education component - and certainly a show and sale is a great way to sell baby snakes - I believe there is more demand than we would think and it will only grow. Like Tim says - some out of province people might be willing to come - would have to sort out issues with permits - even for colubrids - but we could likely facilitate that here for the guys who were interested. My only hesitation is whether, as a club, we want to get into managing money - it is something that often starts out as a good reason to have club - raise money for good cause - and then dealing with the money becomes a limit to how much fun the club is - it sort of takes over everything. Maybe our group is not 'developed' enough yet to take this on - and we should try and convince someone that they can make money putting on a Sask show - we could all just pay for tables and come and do the 'show and sell' thing. would love to know what others think, mary v. |
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Post by Shawn(snakebite) on Apr 20, 2006 23:29:14 GMT -5
Hey guys.......I have to agree with Mary on this one.I think we are a young club and money makes things go bad sometimes, especially if some give more than others and then issues of who is doing more and who is taking advantage come into play.I think this group is capable of many things in time, but lets see who stays true and keeps supportin.In these forums and such some times its a quick , hard go and then phase out and the importance and such wears off for a few.I am however willing to support and give all I can and have time for this club and plan on being a good highly active member with intentions of making it go to it's fullest.A show and sale is a good start , but I think time is needed to really develope this club and see what its capable of.I also realize that putting on such an event is a group effort and speaking for myself, I am very busy with my whole operation as well as a full time job that it's sometimes hard to take on any more and we almost need a person who is willing to bare the load and take on such an event.I'm not saying I don't want to participate , cuz I truly do , but can only contribute to a certain limit.Ha!! Somehow I feel like I'm contradicting myself  , but I hope you all know what I mean.I do have great hopes for our club and am glad to be a part of it. |
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Post by kaley on Apr 21, 2006 8:47:56 GMT -5
I think this group is capable of many things in time, but lets see who stays true and keeps supportin.In these forums and such some times its a quick , hard go and then phase out and the importance and such wears off for a few. Yup - I gotta agree too...I've seen this club go through MANY cycles of waning interest and then a bout of renewed enthusiam...I'm even guilty of that myself. So I have to say that I think that slow and steady is best, and that a show and sale would be good, but we are best to start realtively small and then have it slowly grow in size and scope... Kaley |
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Post by Ryan Wunsch on Apr 23, 2006 0:52:50 GMT -5
Last year I had considered setting one up for this year with Walter or on my own. Walter had mentioned it to me before. I got busy with work last year and didn't plan to put one on.
I agree with what Mary said in an earlier post about clubs put on by a group vs. ones put on privately. Also agree HISS is too young to try to pull one off this year.
I doubt I will set one up this year partially due to lack of time but mostly lack of spare cash.
Perhaps someone will do one privately, or the Saskatoon club will have one - if anyone decides to do one though talk to me about my venue and location contact.
Ryan
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Post by bear24 on Jun 2, 2006 13:44:19 GMT -5
So 2 years in a row now we have agreed to having a reptile show as soon as someone puts one on. Does anybody know how hard one of these is to get rolling and how much it is upfront to start it. If anybody wants to give me some advice on how, I have 2 weeks free after summer session at the end of August. Everybody who is up for a Saskatoon HISStravaganza reptile show&sale let me know by msg. I will get back to you once I have an acceptable plan.
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Post by joeysgreen on Jun 3, 2006 13:01:29 GMT -5
I don't think it's that hard... just book a hall (usually about 300-500 dollars), paint up some signs, try to get some free advertisement via radio, bargain finders, free newspapers ect., and send sign up information to every person and organization you know. Most halls have their own tables you can use, make sure to ask or you might have to rent some. Make sure you have lots of extra power cords and power bars in case vendors have forgotten theirs. Charge a small fee to show a table to help cover the costs of the hall. Start out with small entrance fees to get the public in the doors... it'll make the venders happy too Of course you'll need volunteers to work the door, security, and to set up, decorate, and clean up. Good luck and have fun! Ian |
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Post by Ryan Wunsch on Jun 5, 2006 22:49:34 GMT -5
So 2 years in a row now we have agreed to having a reptile show as soon as someone puts one on. Because HISS does not have the money to put one on itself. The place I had looked at was the the Travel Lodge on Circle and Idlewild. It was where the first Tattoo expo was held, a very nice place, perfect for a reptile show. I talked to ther person in charge of events, and they would welcome a reptile show with open arms. It was quite cheap, I think 800 for a 2 day show, not totally sure. $1000 for advertising at least I would say. So, lots of work, about $2000 upfront, and hope to recoup costs with vendor tables and admission. I'd have hoped for 40 tables, but not counted that into the money coming back in ($600 or less likely) To break even, 500 people in the door at $3 a head on average would be the goal. From past experience, and knowing that location, I think a lot more people than 500 would come, and it would be a profitable success. If I lived closer and had $2000, this year would be the 3rd show. From my experience with reptile attractions and advertising, I think that any advertising you could get would bring enough people in to more than pay for it. If you could spend $3000 on advertising in that city, it would be worth it. I know a few people though, and would be able to get some free advertising no matter who put it on, just to insure its success. I'd also be able to throw some money at it, if anyone decided to spear head the venture. I'd guess there would be other people who might be willing to invest some money to have a Saskatchewan reptile show. The other option, is to solicite sponsors. I've been a sponsor for the Red Deer every year since the first one. Petland would be the obvious sponsor in Saskatoon - and I think it would be possible to put on the whole show with the money they might give to be the only sponsor of it, and have their name included in all fo the banners or advertising. I can help someone to put one on, but I am not able to head it up this year. Ryan |
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Post by joeysgreen on Jun 6, 2006 3:50:32 GMT -5
ERAS has an advertisement budget of $800 I think... we rely heavily on what we can get for free. Average attendance is about 900 people per day.
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, but I hope you all know what I mean.I do have great hopes for our club and am glad to be a part of it.