Pics of some crocidillians I've kept

[Ryan Wunsch]

Thought I’d post a few pictures of the crocodilians I’ve kept over the years.



Dwarf Caimen






American Alligator (just a little guy)








Spectacled caimen (little guy)






The bigger spec I kept in the basement for years (traded to a friend last year)






He got the rat






Very tiny little spectacled caimens, right off the plane at a TARAS show on display. See how cute and stubby their faces still are.

[Shawn(snakebite)]

Awesome piks Ryan!!!Gotta luv them crocodilians, I'd love to have a dwarf one day when I have the room for one.

[Ryan]

Man you're making my decision tougher now, I've been back and forth on getting a Dwarf or not and then you go and show me these pics.

[kent]

sweet nice man

[duane]

Wow! Beautiful!

[Shawn(snakebite)]

I am guessing that the Dwarf Caiman is the smallest specie of crocodilian that is available? Ryan , do you have any comments on keeping these guys.?They get ..what?...4-5 feet or so?What was your experience in keeping it and do you have any special advice on there husbandry ? I guess if you have the space and time it's probably similar to other reptiles in it's captive requirements, hey?

[Ryan Wunsch]

Well....

Yeah, the different types of dwarf caimens are the smallest crocodillians available in the pet trade.

I've kept them, and have the proof in my freezer sadly, as almost everyone who has kept them does at some point it seems. One of mine arrived dead from improper shipping, the other one seemed to do fairly well. They don't handle the stress of importation very well, I had one for about 2 years who seemed healthy (until it died) but never did grow like it would in the wild.

The people who have had success keeping them longer than I did, say that live fish and constant warm water and ambient air temperatures are the key.

I'd like to think that if I never had taken mine to any reptile displays, I would have had success by sticking to those guidlines. In retrospect, I think that each time I took it to a reptile show it was "set back" due to stress which slowed it's growth and was bad for it's health.

I would suggest starting with a spectacled caimen. Easier to maintain, a lot cheaper on the pocket book, and it takes a long time for them to get 5' long - a 7' spec grown in captivity is very rare.

[Shawn(snakebite)]

Ah... thanks for your input , Ryan.I am guessing too that the travelling with shows and such might have had something to do with your outcome .I have heard many times that crocodilians are very susseptable to stress and in fact stress easy, causing health issues.
So a Caiman is more hardy than ,you figure? Good to know. I am not in any rush to get one nor am I equipped to have or care for one at the moment , but the time will come and I will be persuing a crocodilian in the distant future, when I am set up more permanent and have a bigger place.Thanks for your knowledgeable words.It's good to know someone that has had experience with so many species.

[Ryan Wunsch]

To be blunt....

There are very few Spectacled caimens in Canada over 5 years of age. There are hundreds imported each year - but even the many people who do a really great job of keeping them, end up with a frozen pet for some reason.

I think it is a bit hit or miss. Get a hearty specimen that can survive all of the stress of importation treat it well, and it might live a long time. Your best chance is to get one with in days of it coming to the wholesaler I think.

My frozen dwarf caimen was a fairly expensive educational tool - so for that I don't feel so bad, it live longer than many others did, and actually did some good.

Hindsight is always 20/20 though - it is a lot easier for me to see the negatives of doing the educational reptile displays now that I am no longer doing them, and I feel a bit like a hypocrite for now bringing attention to the downfalls of travelling reptile education.

But again, the majority of people who do the best for their caimens, still end up with a frozen one. I'd bet that only 1/200 caimens make it to the 2' mark. Once they hit that size though, they are a very tough animal, and will likely be along for the long haul.

If I was to get one again, I'd buy something past that size from a zoo - and miss the cute baby stage just to know I had a survivor.

[kaley]

admin said:

There are very few Spectacled caimens in Canada over 5 years of age. There are hundreds imported each year - but even the many people who do a really great job of keeping them, end up with a frozen pet for some reason.

Sadly, ours ended up in the freezer after about 2 years...No idea why...Really not a pleasant experience as Byron had waited a long time to get one, and he really thrived right up until the day he died...

I agree with Ryan - get an older one if you can - I wouldn't think it would be hard - the little guys are darn cute, but it's just not worth it in my opinion...

Kaley

[joeysgreen]

and he really thrived right up until the day he died...

.
.
Perhaps this is related to crocodilian's unsurpassed ruggedness. As reptile keepers we are used to animals that don't show illness until it's too late so we're pretty good at catching the slight symptoms that are visible. Perhaps croc's are just that much better that even these slight symptoms are witheld.

Ian

[Kevin]

I have had my spec for around 7 months now. I was lucky and got a CBB specimen for a great price!

Everyone wants a dwarf caiman and people think the specs get really large. I've saw the parents of my guy and their large, but not huge. They were around 5 feet long but mostly tail, but they still looked very powerful.

Mine is around 20 inches long and is still in a 75 gallon aquarium and has plenty of room. It's incredibly hard to keep clean, I can drain the tank and refill it and within 2 weeks the water is green. They love a hot basking spot, and are on land more then most people think. They should have a large land area and less water then most people get.

Our plans for my guys when he's bigger is an exact copy of a friend's enclosure. A large square box 10x10x3. A circle cut in the middle of the enclosure with a kiddie pool filling in perfectly. The floor of the enclosure will be off the ground so the kiddie pool lip is level with land. It is important to have a warm room temperature with a large enclosure.

Really, other then the weekly cleaning and large enclosure they aren't that difficult animals to keep.

[Shawn(snakebite)]

As Ryan said , " there are very few specatcled caiman over 5 years of age in Canada". I beleive a very important factor or reason for this is space. I think people under estimate the space required for these guys. Lack of space creates inactivity and stress , most definately leading to health concerns and then problems and death.Remember caiman are tropical species and temps in at least mid 80's are normal, and thats ambient air temp. Preferred body temp for most species is 84-93. They need a hot spot of 97 and water temps should be at least 80 , but 82-88 is best. Caiman find their warmth in the water at night , so these temps should be maintained at a constant in the water. They do tolerate drops in the 70's , but I beleive they will suffer if this practice becomes a routine. These are my opinions , but I am sure the "space" requirement is overlooked alot of times.
I also think a varied diet must be maintained as well, and being crocodilians and having the reputation of eating anything you throw at them, doesn't help nor is the best for them.Especially when they are young, their digestion system is tender and sensitive and you must take that into concern. Feeding primarily fish is also not the best and vitamin deficiencies such as vitamin E and B1 can result.

[Shawn(snakebite)]

I also wanted to add something to those of you looking through this post and seeing all the cute pictures that Ryan has posted(great piks , and I mean no offense by this) and you think , Wow they are so cute , I'm going to get one. Not a good idea for most people Yes they are legal to keep , so far, but they do not make good pets at all. Especially if you are a beginner or even an intermediate reptile keeper.Remember they get big, they do not tame, and smaller species like spectacled can live up to 30 -50 years , when kept proper. IT'S A LONG TERM COMMITMENT !!! As you see lately there have bee alot of caiman and such on the forums classifieds that have reached 1-3 years and now the owners find they can't handle them and want to get rid of them. Yes, they get big , have a bad attitude , and can seriously hurt you. I urge anyone to PLEASE think about it long term before buying. Do not make a mistake. It is a huge commitment , they need alot of space, cost alot of money as they get bigger, and are not easy to handle, and are not easily disposed of when you get tired of them. They are very demanding and require skill , money , and alot of time . I urge anyone thinking of getting one to really research them and think if their lifestyle is suitable for one. IT IS A BIG DESCISION , BE RESPONSIBLE . Thinking you can "tame" a crocodilian is very far from truth and yes , some species can become more tolerant than others , but I'm sure you will be dissapointed when it doesn't tame like you think , and you got a nasty wound to prove it. Bottom line , if you are serious and have the time , funds and proper accomodations then research and make sure you know what you are getting into. We do not need further bad attention drawn to the reptile keeping community from a single persons " spur of the moment" , "short lived" fascination with an animal that should be left to dedicated , experienced, reptile keepers. Do think bout it before you make this commitment , it is important.