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Post by kaley on Feb 2, 2007 10:03:26 GMT -5
Hi all, I know this is a long shot, but has anyone here had a turtle with septicemia (blood poisoning)? What was the treatment outcome? I have a female RES that came into the rescue about two weeks ago - she is going the the exotics department at the vet college this morning, as I have come to suspect that she has septicemia (RED skin, not eating, a little lethargic)... The little bit of info I could find on the net said that this is often fatal, and at the very least very hard to treat...I will definetly treat her if there is a reasonable chance of success, but I don't want to waste our limited funds on a lost cause... So, successes stories or otherwise, from people with experience treating turts for this type of infection would be appreciated. Thanks for any responses... (except of course for bashing the rescue for being broke!!  ) Kaley |
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Post by joeysgreen on Feb 2, 2007 21:11:05 GMT -5
I think I answered this on ReptilesCanada. In short, I'd say take it to the vet for his/her opinion, and then go with it. These are case by case things, and not all septic animals do poorly.
Ian
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Post by kaley on Feb 2, 2007 21:13:29 GMT -5
I think I answered this on ReptilesCanada. You sure did!! ;D I posted there too, as it's been a little...well, quiet around here lately...and I figured I'd hit a wider audience on a national forum... Thanks again! Kaley |
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Post by Shawn(snakebite) on Feb 2, 2007 21:59:04 GMT -5
Kaley , I would definately treat the turtle if it shows fairly good health yet. I received a red ear from a pet store years ago that had septicemia. I noticed this as soon as I got it. You could see blood beneath keratinous layers of scutes on the carapace and even worse on the plastron. She would still feed and I suspected what it was right off and after consulting a vet I was given premade doses of whatever it was, I don't remember. I got 9 days worth of needles premade to be given once a day. I injected these into the front legs of her and along with taking her out of water and letting her dry out and treating her with a betadine solution , she cured right up. She did lose part of her carapace along the back of it.( I mean the fringe that sticks out) and definately did not have the best lookin shell afterwards , but she fully healed. This is my experience and in my efforts it helped her. Anyways , sorry to hear that and I wish you the best with it.  |
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Post by kaley on Feb 2, 2007 22:27:55 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing Shawn...It's good to hear success stories!
The vet was great about keeping the costs down for me - I told her I was a rescue right off the bat, and she knew that I'm working with limited resources...
The turt is on a course of oral Baytril, and the vet thinks that she has a good chance...I said I could do injectibles, but she thought that it would be good to start with the oral and see how it goes.
Keeping my fingers crossed!
Kaley
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Post by joeysgreen on Feb 3, 2007 12:52:14 GMT -5
Is s'toon far from Delisle?
Ian
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Post by kaley on Feb 3, 2007 13:44:10 GMT -5
It's 40 km from Delisle to downtown Stoon...It takes us about 20 minutes to get from home to the edge of the city...
Why? Are you thinking of moving out this way?
Kaley
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Post by joeysgreen on Feb 3, 2007 18:55:07 GMT -5
nah, it'll be a loong time before I'm at the U of Sask, by then, Calgary might be the option. Nothing against Saskatchewan of course.
Ian
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Post by kaley on Feb 3, 2007 23:29:00 GMT -5
Nothing against Saskatchewan of course. Ian Totally understand - I'd stay closer to home too, if I had to make that choice! Kaley |
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Post by Shawn(snakebite) on Feb 4, 2007 2:52:45 GMT -5
Keep us posted Kaley , with how the treatment is going and if she is improving . I am curious , and I hope the best for her. Thanks..
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alex
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Post by alex on Feb 4, 2007 11:03:09 GMT -5
I've had septic turtles come through really well... I find it really depends on attitude. My big female yellowbelly had about 1/3 of her plastron as a big necrotic mass leaking pus, sepsis (her yellow skin was pink) and definitely an embolic pneumonia, plus god knows where else other bacteria were lodging... we just started her on gentocin and I cleaned up the shell and kept her warm (and eating/drinking - very important with aminoglycoside antibiotics) and she recovered quite well and is still very healthy. I think prompt aggressive treatment was also key.
On the other hand, the turtle I found with shell rot that had eaten into the coelom to expose organs was pretty much toast... I euthanised that one. It was lethargic to the point of seeming dead (if I hadn't been able to see it breathing through the shell) and I didn't feel it was kind to try to rehab that one.
What did your current turtle get put on?
A
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Post by kaley on Feb 4, 2007 18:18:20 GMT -5
I didn't feel it was kind to try to rehab that one. No kidding...sometimes it's just way better to help the misery end...  ...That's a brutal one! Well, we didn't do any diagnostics or anything, and Dr. Shrubsole just put her on Baytril (0.3cc of 50mg/ml) once a day for 3 weeks...I assume that this is just a broad spectrum drug? |
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alex
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Post by alex on Feb 4, 2007 21:38:58 GMT -5
It's kind of a standard choice for reptiles... it's really good for gram negative bacteria which are the majority of reptile infections and has really high penetrance into tissues and bodily fluids, which is probably good for what you want. Other than keeping her really warm (and therefore really well hydrated, and trying to get her to eat as sepsis often causes hypoglycemia) How is she doing otherwise? are you bringing her back for a recheck? I'm on exotics in a week and I'd like to see something I care about... bunnies don't do it for me. But in my experience rehabbing them, if they stay bright and active they tend to do well as long as your antibiotic is appropriate. I just got two new turtles donated today - 20 yr + females with gibbled shells, retained scutes, hypovitaminosis A and a rather disgusting amount of intracoelomic fat... the up side is they got me a 30 gallon tank, a new fluval 404, yet more cycle, lights, a heater, gravel... I wanted to upgrade my tentacled snake tank and now it's free  |
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Post by kaley on Feb 4, 2007 22:32:02 GMT -5
It's kind of a standard choice for reptiles... I figured that...I think that's the only thing I've ever been perscribed for a turt... Good...glad to hear that... She's doing OK so far...she seems to have perked up a little, but that may be wishful thinking on my part...Byron just said that she just ate a pinky mouse - so that's a start - she hadn't eaten a thing in quite a while... I'm sorta pooping my pants about one of my other turts now - my female painted turtle, who started as a rescue, but is now my fav pet...I noticed that she stopped eating too...And after a closer check, she looks a little pink on the plastron and has two tiny little red pits too...I know that the rescue turt came sick, but if the painted is sick, it's my own fault  It's killing me...she rubbed a big raw spot on her shell this summer, and it looked ugly but not infected or anything, and then our inside enclosure was a little cold for a while, so I think that maybe she had an infection all summer from the raw spot and that if flared up with the cold snap...SO, I maybe bringing her in to the college...For now I'm being bad and doing a little self medicating...I figured out the same dosage as the other turt is getting, and I've got the painted on the Baytril now too...But if things don't fix up soon with her, I'll be bringing her in for whatever tests etc that can be done so that she's OK.... Can you get me a deal!? ;D Well good luck with them...At least it's easy for you to get vet care for them! I was going to say "too bad people only give up turts in rough shape"...but then I remembered that we just got a beautiful little male, and also a really nice little female...So I guess all the turts in the world aren't badly taken care of... At least there is an upside! Free stuff is always good! Kaley |
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Post by joeysgreen on Feb 5, 2007 10:55:44 GMT -5
How come we havn't seen your tentacled snake's yet? Are they achrochordates?
Ian
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alex
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Post by alex on Feb 5, 2007 11:24:51 GMT -5
Yeah, it tends to unfortunately be a knee jerk antibiotic for a lot of people. At the college they're pretty good about using other antibiotics if the situation warrants. I don't agree with high level fluoroquinolone usage in any species.
I can't get you a deal. They cut us off pretending other people's animals were our own (which sucks! They used to let me do it all the time and actually tell me I should cover my friends) and now even we're restricted to 5 pets to get a discount on.... it totally blows for those of us with gibbled pets. But I can take a look at it. If it's uncomplicated shell rot (i.e. not outright sepsis) I like just treating topically, but we'd need to evaluate your painted and possibly run some blood... then you'd need a good topical antibiotic, which is actually pretty cheap.
My tentacleds take shitty photos. In the water, they're hard to focus on, and on land they're uncoordinated squirmers... I have a 2.2 group that's just about breeding size. I love them. They're more fun to watch than my tv.
They're actually Erpton tentaculatum, which is in the Homolopsidae.... I had Acrochordus javanicus but they seem to do super well and then drop dead suddenly. They're on my list of pets in the freezer to necropsy when I have time.
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Post by kaley on Feb 5, 2007 12:11:27 GMT -5
I was mostly just joking! I really don't expect people to give me deals...I would like it if the college could give me a break 'cause of the rescue, but I understand when they can't... That's shitty!!  You'd think they'd want you to see as many different animals as possible, and if you or your friends happen to have sick ones, then why not let you treat them for cheap? Seems very silly to me! It is a teaching hospital after all... Thanks...I think I'll bring her in if she doesn't turn around right quick...I think it's more than just shell rot, unfortunately... That's too bad - I'd love to see pics! Kaley |
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Post by joeysgreen on Feb 7, 2007 11:52:07 GMT -5
How long have you had the tentacleds? They are far from common in Canada. Is care similar to any 100% aquatic animal (ie, fish and some frogs) Ian---this could take a turn into something that should be in another thread |
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alex
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Post by alex on Feb 7, 2007 19:13:45 GMT -5
I've had them about a year, I guess? My life tends to blur together now because I spend most of my time at the WCVM so it's all the same. Their care is similar to any aquatic animal who needs live prey, a complex spatial environment, mildly brackish but pretty acid/soft very warm stagnant and shallow water.... I have to feed mostly goldfish because Saskatoon blows for feeder fish compared to Vancouver, so I supplement the snakes and/or the goldfish with injection grade thiamine on a periodic basis. So, I could see them being similar to some fish (definitely not pipid frogs, if that's what you're asking... ours were not fans of salt or too much acidity) but not at all like any of the fish I've kept, or even my 95% aquatic turtles. They probably will come out on land in the bigger tank, when I figure out where to fit the bigger tank. They had one minor bout of fungus when I was gone for a month and others were looking after them, but I cleared it up pretty quick and it hasn't recurred. My bigger male was courting the bigger female for hours last night. She wasn't too interested though... I might have some photos that aren't horrible when I upload from my camera. 1.2 of mine are quite dark and mottled. 1 male is quite lovely and striped almost like bamboo, a lot like the colour phase the Vancouver Aquarium bred. Both phases are on this page: whozoo.org/Intro2002/StephReder/SJR_Tentacledsnake.htmIn my experience the mottled dark ones hate the striped one. I dunno if I have especially racist snakes or if he's some sort of jerk that I can't really detect, but I have seen allusions to possibly adding species to Erpton. They're total pigs. Sometimes they can't swim well because they're too full to bend. |
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Post by joeysgreen on Feb 8, 2007 11:47:21 GMT -5
Thanks for the link, if you're successfull with breeding them I'm first in line okay? They've been on my want list for a while, but due to the low availability they've been admittedly near the bottom. Most of my "rare to get" efforts have been on finding more P. pipa.
Ian
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alex
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Post by alex on Feb 8, 2007 19:37:10 GMT -5
I think Colin bought his Pipa pipa in Alberta on one of his trips home... they were adults though and only lived I think 5-6 years past when he bought 'em.... they're pretty much like keeping Xenopus. You'd actually be about 10th or 11th on the list of people who've asked for tentacleds, and that's even if/when I sell them. I want more of them too I think it'll be a bit longer; the girls are still a little smaller than the breeding females I've seen in zoos. |
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Post by joeysgreen on Feb 9, 2007 17:56:32 GMT -5
ya, I figured I'd be at the end of the line, I got my pipa at a fish store as an adult, that was in 1999. That was the only time I've seen them, however I know they have shown up at least twice since then, but I was too slow and they were sold by the time I got there. Otherwise, no one will ship them to Canada unless the order is at least $1000. That's a lot of frogs! Ian |
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alex
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Post by alex on Feb 10, 2007 18:03:51 GMT -5
You could try Bowfront/Riverfront Aquariums.... I forget which one it's actually called, I think it's in Calgary but honestly I've never been the one driving there and most of our AB trips end up going to both Calgary and Edmonton. Pretty sure Calgary though.
Anyway, the guy got in some sirens and was impressed how fast they sold, and he's started getting them and amphiumas in more frequently (my favourite aquatic amphibian).... if he doesn't start carrying Pipa, he might be able to order them in for you.
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Post by joeysgreen on Feb 12, 2007 5:43:25 GMT -5
Yup, that's Christian who owns Riverfront in Calgary. We've talked often, but unfortunately the places that seasonally carry pipa just don't have enough of what else he'd like to order; so I'd have to order enough to fill the order. He keeps an eye out for me though.
Ian
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Post by Shawn(snakebite) on Feb 24, 2007 23:45:22 GMT -5
Hey Kaley , just curious to know how you made out with the treatments and if she is out of the woods yet??  |
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...That's a brutal one! 
It's killing me...she rubbed a big raw spot on her shell this summer, and it looked ugly but not infected or anything, and then our inside enclosure was a little cold for a while, so I think that maybe she had an infection all summer from the raw spot and that if flared up with the cold snap...SO, I maybe bringing her in to the college...For now I'm being bad and doing a little self medicating...I figured out the same dosage as the other turt is getting, and I've got the painted on the Baytril now too...But if things don't fix up soon with her, I'll be bringing her in for whatever tests etc that can be done so that she's OK.... Can you get me a deal!? 
You'd think they'd want you to see as many different animals as possible, and if you or your friends happen to have sick ones, then why not let you treat them for cheap? Seems very silly to me! It is a teaching hospital after all...